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Crutchley

#1 by mikejee , Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:25 pm

Hi again Susan
As I said earlier, there were far more Crutchleys around than I would have thought. I found George, butcher, at no 85 Coleshill St in 1862. however the Dix’s 1858 directory lists 85 as Alf Stockwin, tobacconist. The date on the directory is the publication date, and so the information would almost certainly be from the year before (or possibly two years before in this case, as this is a relatively small directory firm). Th 1858 Dix does not list any George Crutchley, but does list a John Crutchley , fendermaker at 64 Coleshill St and living at Court 5 Coleshill St. Living so close I would have thought this is likely to be a relative. Below is a map from c 1889 (probably about 1884) showing these three places (85 in red, 64 in blue, court 5 in green). Many of the buildings will be similar in the early days and in 1905, though the Gaety did expand and would have been small in 1858. If you would like me to follow John any further back or any other Crutchley, then let me know
Mike
PS ignore the red smudge at the bottom of the map - that is nothing


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Last edited 02.05.2012 | Top

RE: Crutchley

#2 by phil ( deleted ) , Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:05 pm

Mike,

If thats where no 85 was indeed situated then this photo of the early version of the Prince of Wales public house shows No 85 next door. The photo I believe was originally posted by Sterling Single.

Phil

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RE: Crutchley

#3 by mikejee , Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:57 pm

The Prince of Wales was no 86. so that is definitely the building.

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RE: Crutchley

#4 by Stirling Single , Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:31 pm

Mike,
I'm trying to read the writing on the map for No 82, Coleshill Street - Is it Black Lion Pub ?
Lynn.

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RE: Crutchley

#5 by mikejee , Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:54 pm

Yes Lynn That's right. the Black Lion

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RE: Crutchley

#6 by Stirling Single , Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:35 pm

Thanks Mike, Lynn.

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RE: Crutchley

#7 by Stirling Single , Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:39 pm

Hi everyone, Would any one have a picture of the Black Lion.
Many thanks if you have.
Lynn.

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RE: Crutchley

#8 by SusanC , Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:44 pm

Thank You Mike!
The information I have from the 1858 Birmingham Post Office Directory cites:
Coleshill street.....
85 Crutchley George, butcher
86 Read Thomas G. beer retailer
.........here is New Thomas street.........
87-90 The Birmingham Concert Hall, Phillips & Choules, proprietors, & wine & spirit merchants

I may take you up on the offer of help on my Crutchley's. One of my most treasured possessions is a half shilling that my great grandfather brought over with him when he immigrated in 1884. I spent the entire night into the wee morning hours looking over all the wonderful pictures that Phil posted to the city streets thread. What an awesome undertaking he has done. I feel as if I should be paying him for being my personal tour guide to the area I have always dreamed of seeing. The most wonderful part is that I get to see the area as I would have like to see it back in my ancestors days!! The pictures take the sorrow from the fact that I will never be able to visit there in my mortal lifetime.

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RE: Crutchley

#9 by phil ( deleted ) , Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:34 am

Hi Susan

Thanks for those kind words, the sad fact is that none of us will be able to walk those streets again, thanks to the policy of successive Birmingham City Councillors and planners. If a building stood in their way of a new and modern Birmingham then it was removed.

If you want some other photos more local to Coleshill St, then just let me know and I will see what I can sort out for you.

Phil

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RE: Crutchley

#10 by mikejee , Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:37 pm

Don't know if it is of any interest, but i have superimposed the c 1912 map around coleshill st over the google view, and below are views with the map obilterating google, with google showing through, and with just the green marking line son . I have amrked position of 85, 64 and court in red, blue & green as on earlier map on the plain google view
mike

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RE: Crutchley

#11 by SusanC , Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:56 pm

Phil & Mikejee -- Thank you seems so redundant. Pictures of 85 Coleshill would be sooo appreciated. The map overlay for the area was such a help. I will post under the heading George Crutchley what I have on my great great grandfather and his family and three wives.
Thanks & Regards - Susan

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RE: Crutchley

#12 by phil ( deleted ) , Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:37 am

Susan

As you expressed a desire for an extension to the map on the "Streets" thread here it is, as you said Coleshill St was a continuation of Dale End. In the meantime I'll sort you out some Coleshill St photos.

Phil

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RE: Crutchley

#13 by SusanC , Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:07 pm

Phil,
Thank you for taking the time to help me sort out things.
I have a questions I hope someone can help me with. One is regarding George Crutchley's marriage to Eliza Capas. The information for this event is from the LDS Family Search web site and is indexed in the "England Marriages, 1538-1973". It cites that George Crutchley married Eliza Capas on 25 Dec 1852 and the marriage place is listed as Aston Juxta Birmingham, Warwick, England.
My questions are --
1. Where is Aston Juxta Birmingham?
2. Does Warwick stand for Warwickshire or is Warwick another place entirely?
My other questions are --
3. Was there a large infant mortality rate in the 1850-1870's?
4. What class or type of neighborhood was 85 Coleshill road during the time frame 1858-1905?
5. Why was the occupation of "butcher" so common in this area? [Anything to do with the "Bull Ring" area?]
6. Also, is this the appropriate forum/thread for these types of questions?

Thank you ALL for taking the time to help me.
Regards, Susan

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RE: Crutchley

#14 by phil ( deleted ) , Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:31 pm

Susan

I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge, I'm sure Mike or some of the others will try to help out where I'm not sure.

Firstly and most importantly you ask any questions you like on here, I think between us we can cover more or less anything to do with Birmingham. I do not do genealogy but Mike and I think Lyn do. I'm pretty reasonable on the buildings and history of Birmingham. As I say we have a good mix between us.

Aston Juxta Birmingham means Aston next to Birmingham and refers to Aston before it became part of Birmingham.

Warwick can mean the county of Warwickshire or the town of Warwick, Birmingham was part of Warwickshire before the advent of the West Midlands County.

The possibility of increased infant mortality during the years you mention could have been due to the huge increase of people coming into the cities looking for work during those years resulting in more slum conditions and increasing epidemics.

Judging by the type of housing along Coleshill St I would have thought it a pretty well to do area.

I would have thought there would be plenty of butchers shops in every area as the lack of refrigeration would have meant a constant need for fresh meat.

I'm sure Mike will be only too happy to add further to anything I have skimped over.

Phil

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RE: Crutchley

#15 by SusanC , Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:06 pm

Phil,

Thank you. I now understand the Aston Juxta association.

The question regarding infant mortality is that Eliza Capas Crutchley bore 10 children between 1855 and 1869. The years of their baptisms were 1855, 1858, 1860, 1861, 1863, 1864, 1866, 1867, 1868, and 1869. The first two were baptised at St. James the Less, Ashted, Warwick, England. The remaining 8 were baptised in Bishops Ryder, Birmingham, Warwick, England. Am I safe to assume that Warwick in this instance, meant Warwickshire?

In the 1861 Census for 85 Coleshill street, the only child shown is the one baptised in 1858, Henry Herbert Crutchley. Mystery is I only have documentation for the death of the first child in 1855.

It is now snowing here in Cape May county, New Jersey and the temperature is 37. [FYI Cape May county is the southern most county in NJ and is shaped like a wedge.] We have been unusually warm this winter. Hope all is well in dear ole Birmingham.

Regards,
Susan

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