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Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#1 by Stirling Single , Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:37 pm

Nigel,
Can you remember anything about were the Gable End with Holder's Ales on it was.
What part of Birmingham was the Merry Hill shopping Centre.
You say - from your childhood memory - it was painted black, on a white background and it may have been made from tiles, but as you said the building may be knocked down by now.
It would be interesting if you can remember the area of the shopping centre.
Lynn.

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#2 by phil ( deleted ) , Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:23 pm

Lynn

Merry Hill Shopping Centre is just outside Dudley it's not in Birmingham. Holders pubs were spread throughout the West Midlands though obviously due to transport the further out the sparser they got. Just a couple off hand that are still around are the Crown & Cushions Lloyd Street West Bromwich and The Royal Oak Causeway Green Rd Langley.

If you can tell me a little more about this pub at Merry Hill I may be able to track it down for you.

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#3 by Stirling Single , Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:40 pm

Phil, What Nigel said was that it was on a Gable End, that he remembered - Hadn't thought of that as being a pub, - I just thought an advertisement - but Yes, see what you mean - the advertisement on the end Gable of a pub.
Will be interesting to see if he remembers what area it was in.
Lynn.

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#4 by Stirling Single , Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:49 pm

Thanks Phil for these two pictures.
I must get sorted, all the info that you have posted over the past year and I haven't put properly into order as yet !!
Lynn.

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#5 by Stirling Single , Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:23 pm

Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

Am hoping that these will appear as pictures and if they do, would anyone be able to tell me what the little floretts are around the 3d are.
Do you reckon it may have been for a special occasion or something as they don't appear on any of the other Tokens that I have.
Lynn.

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#6 by Stirling Single , Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:30 pm

Have doubled up with the front of the Token by mistake.
The 2nd line down is the back - the one that I'm wondering about, I'm still !! learning how to do this!! !![Frying Pan]

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#7 by astoness , Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:55 pm

nice token lynn and you are doing just fine..no idea what the little florets are though...could be just decoration i guess...nice to see you using the smilies...youve gone barmy with them since you found them the other day.....

 
astoness

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#8 by phil ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:09 pm

Lynn

Practice makes perfect, I'm also mystified concerning the florets on the tokens. Could the references to Cotrill & St Pauls have anything to do with them?

phil

RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#9 by phil ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:20 pm

Lyn

A quick search tells me that they were refreshment tokens made by E Cottrill of St Pauls Square Birmingham who supplied many such similar establishments in Birmingham

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#10 by Stirling Single , Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:38 pm

Phil,
In 1846 when Henry Holder opened Holders Grand Concert Hall he was the proprietor of the Rodney Inn next door at 87,Coleshill Street
These were refreshment Tokens.
I have a few tokens that are identical to the one with the floretts on - minis the floretts. I just wondered if this florett one had been issued for a special visit or something, or some sort of special ocassion. Shall keep looking.Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)
This is the one that is more common with no floretts.
Lynn.

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#11 by phil ( deleted ) , Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:04 pm

Lynn

I don't suppose you have a date for the tokens with the florets on them do you? we might be able to work something out from that?

phil

RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#12 by Stirling Single , Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:41 pm

Phil,
Good thinking but no I don't have a date, except that it was:-
1846 that it all started with the Rodney Inn in 87,Coleshill Street and then he gradually took over 88,89,and ?90
1861 it was all called Holder's Concert Hall so would I guess that - The Rodney Tokens would have been the earlier ones from 1846 onwards, before they started having Holder's Concert Hall tokens.
Don't know .
I've sent an email to a Metal Detecting site so lets see if they come up with anything.
Thanks for your thinking on that.
Lynn.

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#13 by mikejee , Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:34 pm

I don't know if you have seen this below, from "Guide list of Public houses on Metallic Checks, birmingham & smethwick 1830-1910", pub by birm Museum & Art Gallery 1978. It is a list of checks thta they were aware of in various museums.
As you can see at the end, there were other Rodneys issuing tokens.


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Last edited 11.18.2012 | Top

RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#14 by Stirling Single , Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:05 am

Mike, Thanks sooooooooo much for this. There is a lot of information to look at here. W B explained - a question I've wondered about on one of my tokensBild entfernt (keine Rechte)
Then you have the name Dr.W.T.Belcher as the organist - I need to investigate that name with more recent times and see if there is a connection, with a more recent Belcher - I'll get down to that as soon as I can and will let you know.
Mike:- If you have the book or {can I look at it on line} - would you be able to explain, if you can all the lettering - for e.g. the top line MG - Ref No 941 { I take that to be Birm Museum & Art Gallery} and I suppost Collection F would be to do with them as well. I guess the best thing for me to do here is contact them when I understand the system a little better, and ask them what all the letters under the Collection heading mean.
This has been a lovely post to awaken up to this morning.
Lynn.

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RE: Holder Family History Birmingham - All things

#15 by Stirling Single , Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:58 am

So date wise Phil from the Token with W B on it, as you can seen on Token above and from Mikes post of Dr W B Belcher playing the organ it looks like the date is around 1846, so this special florett one must have been in and around that time. Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)
Lynn.

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