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Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#1 by Stirling Single , Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:06 pm

I've been following Coleshill Street to see what way the buildings were numbered.
They seem to have started at Dale End No 1 and gone down the South side of the street to A.B Row were they turn at No 60 and go back up the North side of the street to Dale End again - Have I got this right.

What I really want to find out is if Henry ever occupied No 90 Coleshill Street.

I've been tracing, as best I can - Henry in 87,88,89 Coleshill Street. He seems to have started in No 89 in about 1846 or mabe slightly before and then bought the other two properties No88 and No87 as they became vacant.

Is there any Directory that I can look up that would give me the Street Names, then the Numbers and then the people and what the building is being used for. I suppose that would be asking for too much.
Lynn.

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#2 by Voltman , Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:28 pm

I don't think you are asking too much at all Miss Single.
We have some members who are weighed down with more directories than some of us would know what to do with.
I expect an answer will follow shortly.
Voltman


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Last edited 11.28.2011 | Top

RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#3 by phil ( deleted ) , Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:21 pm

Lynn

I think Mike is the man that you need for this, as far as I am aware directories for the time that you want only list by name of the business. It wasn't until later that they started to list by street.

You are correct though about the numbering on Coleshill street being sequential down the one side and then up the other. I don't know if Coleshill St was ever renumbered but that is something else you can ask mike.

All I can tell you with any certainty is that in 1846 Henry Holder was listed at The Rodney at 89 Coleshill St.

Phil

phil

RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#4 by Voltman , Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:27 pm

I have this from the later Kelly's Directory of Birmingham,
Staffordshire, Worcestershire &
Warwickshire, 1880.


Coleshill street, 60 Dale end.
SOUTH SIDE.
.1 Eldershaw John, grocer
2 Wathe3 Brothers, coffee rooms
3 Nolen James, chemist & dentist
4 Cumberland Jas. carver & gilder &c
5 Livingstone John, greengrocer
5J Peakman John, tripe dresser
6 Jordan Thomas, boot maker
6£- James Saml. basket carriage body ma
7 Ellison James, greengrocer
7J GHennen William, picture frame ma
8 Shrimpton Wm. J ohn, linen draper
Birmingham Lamp Co
here is LeeTt street
11 Blea William, beer retailer
12 Taylor Mrs. Mary, pork butcher
13 Myers James, tin ware manufacturer
14 Windsor Edward, gun & pistol manfr
15 Bassett Joseph, umbrella maker
15i Bach Edward, spur manufacturer
16 Burley Frank, sign writer &c
17 Bramhall Silvanus, fried fish shop
1 COURT :—
18 Rose George, shopkeeper
2 COURT :—
Skett Wm. sewing machine repairer
21 to 23 Naish Arthur John & Sons,
ironfounders. See advert
24 Langford John, britannia metal raanf
24 Restall & Gellion, electro plate mnfrs
26 Moore Thomas, cabinet maker
27 Pickin John, domestic machine ma
28 Taylor Jsph.&Sons,curriers&lthr.sllrs
29 Bowater Joseph & Son, funeral carriage
proprietors
here is Doe street
30 Mills James, provision dealer
31 Mills Joseph, hosier
3-2 & 33 Renn Thomas, printer
5 COURT:—
Elvery Jonathan, chimney sweeper
34 Buckel John, basket maker
35 Trunkfield Charles, shopkeeper
36 Green Man, James Browning
37 & 38 Yates Thomas, metal spoon ma
39 & 40 Yates James, pewterer &c
43&44YatesBros.electroplaters&gildrs
45 Scott Mrs. Isabel, dress maker &c
46 Plummer Samuel, hair dresser
47 Parkes Henry James, watch maker
here is Market street
48 Daffbrn Tom Parsons, dairyman
49 Morse Miles, grocer
50 Stephenson William, shopkeeper
51 Groark Michael, ironplate worker
52 McGrane John & Co. dyers
53 Rock & James, dining rooms
54 Murphy Richard, boot maker
55 Tysall William, news agent •
56 Rose Benjamin, botanist
57 Tibbitts Miss Ann Atuina.beer retailr
58 Beaumont Richard, eating house
59 Weller Gaius, baker
here are A B §• Prospect rows
Duke street
NORTH SIDE.
60 Ennitt Mrs. Elizabeth, butcher
61 Williams Alfred, greengrocer
62 Gray Joseph Hen. clock case maker
63 Riches Thomas & Son, grocers
63j Angel, John Campbell
64 Monday Henry, milliner
64A, Gardner Thomas, hatter
05 O'Connor Matthew, furniture brokr
66 Spiers Samuel, beer retailer
( Reynolds James George, grocer
67 •< POST & MONEY ORDER OFFICE
( & Savings Bank
68 Bradsnaw John, linendraper
69 Ford Isaac, locksmith
70 Ford Charles H. painter &c
71 Howes Charles, saddler
72 Baylis Mrs. Jane, furniture dealer
73 Dixon Joseph, pawnbroker
73J Hunt Josiah, harne maker
74"Coleman Thomas, boot & shoe maker
75 CowneyFrederickCnarles,boot maker
13 COURT:—
Tranter William, brass caster
76 Andrews Edwin, stationer
77 Turvey John, fried fish shop
78 Owen Edward James, hosier
14 COURT:—
Busst Mrs. Ann, gun implement ma
Busst George, engraver
Lewis George, slater
79 Woollerton Walter, baker
80 Court John & Alfred, linen drapers
80 (back of) Campbell John, brush maki
81 Lunn James, butcher
82 Black Lion, Samuel Burn
83 Hood Joseph, hardware factor
84 Howell Mrs. Jane, provision dealer
84 (back of) Edge Bros, gun action mkrs
85 Crutchley George, butcher
86 Read Thomas G. beer retailer
here is New Thomas street....
87 to 89 The Birmingham Concert
Hall, $ Rodney inn, Phillips &
Choules, proprietors
90 Wilcox Sidney, watch maker
91 Bramhall Walter, ironmonger
92 Goode Thomas, pork butcher
93 Gellion John Frederick, dining rooms
94 Burley William, hair dresser
94 (back of) Honor George,cabinet mkr
94 (back of) Phillips Geo. hammer mkr
94 (back of) Day Joseph, brassfounders
spike maker
94 (back of) Harris Brothers, engineers
95 BrockwayMrs. My. Jane,tobacconist
96 Cox Brothers, grocers
96£ (back of)FellowsJhn.carpntr.&joinr
96 £ Taylor Henry W. tanner & white
leather dresser'
97 Smith William, boot & shoe maker
98 Palmer Thomas, shopkeeper
99 Clifford Charles, news agent
100 Chatwin Walter, copper smith
101 Lakin Mrs. Mary, haberdasher
102 Hall John, greengrocer
here is Old Cross street
103 Long William, chemist
104 Clarke John Hewitt, fancy repositry
105 Jones Alfred, baker
106 Weston David, fried fish dealer
107 Edwards Albert, corn factor
108 Bernstein Isaac, pawnbroker
109 & 110 Hope&; Anchor, Jsph.Wilson
111 Masters John Robert, watch maker
112 Dowding Peter, tailor
113 Williams Henry, beer retailer
113A, Hill Thomas, cabinet bar fitter
113c, Payne William, chair maker
113j Cooper John, blacksmith
114 Davis Louis, pawnbroker
115 Harris John, greengrocer
116 Cox Samuel, pie house
117 Amor Miss Emma, milliner
118 & 119 Birmingham Coffee .House
Co. Limited (Joel Evason, man)


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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#5 by mikejee , Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:35 pm

Lynn
Most of the directories of Birmingham (and other big towns) from 1845 (in Birmingham's case, slightly different for others) have street directories that do as you wish. Sometimes a long search using the find button and the name of the street can find addresses in other cases. Of course each building will not necessarily be listed , and sometimes buildings which occupy two or more numbers are only listed ubder one of them (The listings ffor 90 Coleshill St that I have are
Coleshill St No 90
1841 Brittain Wm.gimblet & brush bit manuf
1845 Brittain Wm.gimblet & coach wrench manuf.
1849 (90 & 91) Wright John & Co.milIers & bakers
1855 Burley William, hairdresser
1858 Samuel Fisher ,Tailor
1862 Bakewell Thomas, Tailor & Woollen draper
1868 (87,88,89,90) Holders Hotel & Concert Hall,John Soward Jun. prop. & wine & spirit merchant
(note in 1867 Bakewell Thomas, Tailor was at 90A)
The 1862 census gave no 90 as “no resident occupant” – and no sign of Bakewell(or a 90A, even though he is listed there in 1867)
Mike


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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#6 by mikejee , Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:55 pm

for information the actual numbers (which i am pretty sure are right) are shown on this 1889 map


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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#7 by Stirling Single , Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:44 pm

Thanks all for all of this. Am just slotting the dates into place and will understand it better when I see who was where and when.
Mike, you put a lot of work into it all and I thank-you for that. I'm just fitting in dates to see at what stages Henry acquired the properties.
No 90, Mike, do you have any views - of your own - as to if he did at one stage, as you said, be in No 90 in 1868 or do you think there may have been a misprint.

1851 Census Henry Holder - No 89, Coleshill Street
1861 Census Henry Holder - No 87,88,89, Coleshill Street
1862, No 90 - Thomas Bakewell - tailor and 1867, 90A -Thomas Bakewell - tailor
1867 No 90A - Thomas Bakewell - tailor
1868 No 87,88,89, and 90 Holders Hotel and Concert Hall
1880 No 87,88,89, The Birmingham Concert Hall and Rodney Inn
and 1880 No 90 - Sidney Wilcox - watch maker {on the Kelly's Directory of Birmingham} that Volty put in, so by the time of your lovely clear map of 1889 I take it that those two properties, on the map (90 and 91) were just sticking into the corner of the Gaiety Palace property - What do you think. - I just think it strange for him to have had No 90 for those 12yrs when he was starting to move over towards Nova Scotia Street and transferring across to the Midland Brewery {or should I say, it was his son - John Charles - who was by then running the buisness}

Mike, It's good for me to summarize this - I'm not asking for any more but just if you could please run your eye over it and tell me if you think I've got it correct.

Lynn.

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Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#8 by Stirling Single , Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:01 pm

Volty,
I thought I'd send you a seperate message about The Kelly's Directory of Birmingham, Staffordshire, Worcestershire and Warwickshire, 1880.
That is most self explanatory and so easy to follow.
I've spent a long time to-day trying to find this particular Directory, all laid out like this, and can't find it anywere.
Would you be kind enough to tell me exactly where to find it or if it's your own disc have you a paricular site that you would buy it off.
Thank's for posting that on site.
Lynn.

Stirling Single  
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Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#9 by phil ( deleted ) , Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:25 pm

Lynn

I recently purchased the 1878 & 1879 editions of Kelly's both on the same disk for a very reasonable price on Ebay, they are both in the format that you require.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kellys-Directo...=item4cf74f6356

Well worth the money, you might like to take a look.

Phil

The following contents have been linked to this post::
phil

RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#10 by mikejee , Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:22 am

Lynn
In answer to your question I do think (gut feeling) that he probably wasn't ever in no 90. This might be a missprint, ot just that the person recording the data just wasn;t quite sure which numbers were on which building, and so included 90 with the hotel. I have got the impression that often at that time buildings did not always display numbers (in fact looking at highstreets today on streetview, this lack of numbers seems to be reappearing). O a couple of occasions i have found where directories in one year will put a listing at one number and for all other years at the next door number .
Hope that answers your question
mike


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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#11 by Stirling Single , Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:42 am

Thanks Mike, Yes, that helps me to confirm, in my mind what I, like yourself (gut feeling) have been thinking. Very helpful. Lynn.

Stirling Single  
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Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#12 by Stirling Single , Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:11 am

Thanks Phil, I've had a look and I actually have that disc - just have collected too much over the past year to look at everything.
Now, you have helped me to learn to look for Post Office Directories, {as it says on the disc}, if I'm looking on the different sites and I want to find that particular format.
Lynn.

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Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#13 by Voltman , Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:23 pm

Posted by Stirling Single
Volty,
Edited.....
Would you be kind enough to tell me exactly where to find it or if it's your own disc have you a paricular site that you would buy it off.
Lynn.



Lynn, the disc came from Midlands Historical Data at http://www.midlandshistoricaldata.org/SH..._2.html&sc=1920
My order details are shown below.

ORDER DETAILS
*************
Item Code: M0444a
Kellys Directory of Birmingham & Suburbs (1880)
Price Each: £11.99 Quantity: 1


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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#14 by Stirling Single , Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:27 pm

Thanks Volty, Have just ordered it and another one as well. I hadn't realized that I could buy these from the Midlands Historical site.
I had looked up this site for reference but these discs are so much clearer.
Lynn.

Stirling Single  
Stirling Single
Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#15 by phil ( deleted ) , Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:34 pm

Lynn

I didn't know that Sir John Holder had contributed land to Cannon Hill park one of Birmingham's premier parks. I was just reading it here, the second paragraph.

http://www.bgfl.org/bgfl/custom/resource...ps_1/page44.htm

phil

   

Grosvenor Street / Grosvenor Row
Yardley

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