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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#31 by Stirling Single , Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:38 pm

Hi Volty,
Yes, The Gaiety Music Hall link is a very information site.
Now what I was wondering about - was, on the Holders Grand Concert Room site I've posted that token with the 'Floretts' all around on the 3d but I've not been able to find out what they were for - if it was for a celebration or something - { as they do not appear on the same token, - the one that is second in my collection of the 8 tokens to-gether, } - on the Holders Grand Concert Rooms link.
Would any one have any fresh ideas, although I may have asked this before. 'Mabe for a Royal occasion' or has anyone seen this Florette on any other coins or tokens.
Lynn.

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#32 by Voltman , Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:23 am


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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#33 by Stirling Single , Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:02 pm

Thanks Volty, I've had my eye on it but he's asking too much for it. I had been wondering why and for what the well punched hole is for in the middle of it - any ideas. Lynn.

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#34 by Voltman , Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:07 pm

I have had a look on the internet and can't find any answer apart from it being a way for storing them on a string or similar..

My first thought was that it might be because they were the same size as a coin and had to be made to appear unlike currency.
Then I thought that perhaps the hole is put in when the blank is made and centres the blank in the die when the coin is struck.


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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#35 by mikejee , Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:55 pm

It looks a bit to me like it was done a while after being made. Perhaps it was made so a kid could hang it round his neck

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#36 by Deleted User , Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:07 pm

Maybe it was punched to show it had been used so many times

How many vists would the coin be worth.

Long shot.
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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#37 by phil ( deleted ) , Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:14 pm

I don't think it was made when it was manufactured as it's very roughly done and it's not quite central. These types of tokens were used and reused time and time again just like money. If the hole was put there so it could be worn on a chain or a cord around the neck I don't think it would be central. I think it has been nailed to something with an old type nail if you look at the hole closely you will see it is square.

phil

RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#38 by Voltman , Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:17 pm

It says on the coin that it should be used on the evening of issue, I can't see how they would enforce that but as the coin belongs to The Rodney they wouldn't want to destroy it.
Presumably it was handed over when buying an entrance ticket and was redeemable at the bar in a "First Drink is Free" sort of way. They were never meant to be taken out of the building.


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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#39 by Stirling Single , Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:11 pm

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - If given free or bought with the entrance ticket I suppose it could have been a token to give the recipient some sort of special service at the bar.
The hole that looks like a proper good old nail hole I guess we may never know the reason why.
Lynn.

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#40 by mikejee , Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:37 pm

Lynn
As to the exact purpose of the token, i am not familiar with the exact details of the licensing laws at that time, but I seem to remember a scheme in more recent times. In order to circumvent the law as to alcoholic drinks after hours one was asked at at least one place on the Hagley road to pay a fee on entrance , which purchased a sandwich for which you were given a stamped piece of paper , but one could then purchase alcohol at the bar. It is a bit hazy , i may not have it completely right,

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#41 by Stirling Single , Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:41 pm

Interesting Mike - there must have been some law regulations attached to a refreshment token in some way.
Refreshment meaning either a drink or a sandwich attached to a drink.
Lynn.

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#42 by phil ( deleted ) , Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:11 pm

Birmingham has always had funny licensing laws, for many years the licensing committees were kept within the stranglehold of well know Quaker families who would have liked to see drinking and enjoyment of any kind done away with. In recent history up to at least the 70's you could get a drink out of licensed hours if you were dining so I suppose these tokens could have had something to do with that. The only other legal way of getting a drink in Birmingham would have been to book into a hotel for the night. You certainly wouldn't find many nightclubs before the turn of the 60's though there were one or two.

phil

RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#43 by Stirling Single , Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:36 pm

I'm just reading the attached site on Public House Tokens
Although not directly relating to Birmingham it gives an overall view of these Tokens
The last sample on the left in Portsmouth is almost identical to the Rodney Inn one that we have been looking at.http://www.numsoc.net/pubtokens.html
Lynn.

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#44 by mikejee , Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:03 pm

Phil
At the time we are talking about, you did not actually have to stay at the hotrl, it was enough that you were a traveller from elsewhere. This caused a number of court cases, which i have come accross in the Birmingham post (but can't give you an actual example at present ) where the case of whether the licensee was guilty of an offence depended on how far away the "traveller " came from

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RE: Coleshill Street - Henry Holder

#45 by phil ( deleted ) , Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:28 pm

We used to use a hotel (dump) on Stratford rd in Sparkhill that we booked into every time we wanted a late drink but we never spent a night there. In fact the only time I ever went upstairs there was when we demolished part of it in the eighties and if I'd have known how the place was held together after all the dodgy alterations I would have neve gone through the front door.

phil

   

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