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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#226 by mikejee , Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:43 pm

The picture of the Holders Arms shows the landlord as William Charles Cooper. He was listed as at 35 Washington st from between 1910 & 1911 till sometime between 1927 and 1929. Before him the landlord was Albert Joseph Cooper , possibly his father . I hope that was what you were asking for

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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#227 by oldmangonewest , Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:01 pm

Thank you for all your responses.

mikejee, I didn't notice the name William Charles Cooper on the photo - many thanks. The name Cooper isn't known to me but maybe Ellen Nutting lived in the pub with him after her husband died in 1915? Thank you also Voltman for pointing me in the direction of Kellys for who may have lived in the pub post-1915. As I said, it may just be me convincing myself that it's my great grandmother at the Holders Arms. It would be interesting to hear the opinions from others if they can compare the photos. Sadly, no family around to help! I'm just so glad that I have the Templefield Rd Stores photo to show that she and my great grandfather Philip Nutting traded from there c1911. I went to Templefield Rd a couple of years ago...looked to me that all of the properties there now were probably built 1930's - 1980s.

Incidentally, in case anyone was wondering (sheldonboy), my name comes from one of my favourite Birmingham bands - City Boy. (people may remember their only hit - 5705?). They also did an album and song called Young MEN Gone West. May not be to everyone's taste - but they were from the best city!

Thanks again for all your welcomes!

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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#228 by Voltman , Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:14 pm

This is the picture of Templefield Stores
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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#229 by Voltman , Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:17 pm

Thanks Mikejee, but it seems it isn't the whole story.
I had a read of the first few pages of this thread and found you wrote this…..

"I think the last one of your pubs might be the Moulders Arms, not Holders Arms. This is certainly how it is listed in the electoral roll 1922-27. Messing around with the name over the door (and “negativising” it as below) shows it could be that, but am not sure.
Anyway , whatever the name, it was in the Cooper family for a while. From directories and electoral rolls:
1878 –Landlord is Underhill
1880-1899 Joseph Richard Cooper
1900-1905 Mrs Sarah Ann Cooper
1908-10 Albert Joseph Curzon Cooper
1912-27 William Charles J.Cooper (and wife Eliza)
1930 Henry Dent"

This is your image ….Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

So this leaves me wondering if the corner pub in the photo is really the one at 35 Washington Street or is it elsewhere and we don't have a picture of the Holders Arms.
Here is the photo of the pub we are calling The Holders Arms, note the name on the board, the last word doesn't exactly look like Cooper and the word in the stone work does look more like MOULDERS or even some other word that fits xxxxDERS.
Of course it could be that the directories got it wrong and assumed the name was Holders Arms even if it wasn't.
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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#230 by Voltman , Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:33 pm

I have looked into the Templefield Stores and find various references that leave me confused.
The shop is described elsewhere as Templefield Road Stores but if the stores were by the blues ground then the name of the road is Templefield Street.
I can't find a Templefield Road but there is a post office on Wheeleys Road in Edgbaston called Templefield Road Post Office, the shops there are in a small precinct called Templefield Square, was this the site of a Templefield Road?

Does anyone know?


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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#231 by oldmangonewest , Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:36 pm

Wow Voltman - you have eagle-eyes! I agree, the words in stone do look like the Moulders Arms. Nothing on Google backs it up but that's not surprising, given the age. I seem to have raised one issue and caused doubt over another! [sad]

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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#232 by oldmangonewest , Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:43 pm

The Templefield "Stores" was definitely in Templefield Street near the Blues ground because my Dad used to tell me stories of him going there in the 1930s (usually late in the game, when it was free entry for kids!). Sorry - I confused Road with Street.


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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#233 by mikejee , Thu Jan 01, 2015 10:54 pm

Thanks Volty. I had forgotten that I had already dug out that other information . Well it was three years ago. On my recent reply I was just assuming that it was the Holders Arms. I usually save things like that under the name of the pub, but do not seem to have done that on this occasion.

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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#234 by Voltman , Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:02 am

Quote: oldmangonewest wrote in post #231
Wow Voltman - you have eagle-eyes! I agree, the words in stone do look like the Moulders Arms. Nothing on Google backs it up but that's not surprising, given the age. I seem to have raised one issue and caused doubt over another!

I should point out that I was just quoting Mikejee fom a few years go.


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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#235 by Voltman , Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:08 am

Quote: mikejee wrote in post #233
Thanks Volty. I had forgotten that I had already dug out that other information . Well it was three years ago. On my recent reply I was just assuming that it was the Holders Arms. I usually save things like that under the name of the pub, but do not seem to have done that on this occasion.

So Mike, is there any way we can prove that the pub in the photo is at No.35 Washington Street and not just a co-incidence of similar licencees names?


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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#236 by astoness , Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:00 am

just caught up with this thread....re the pic of the pub which is on a corner...just checked 1921 kellys and after the pub run by william charles cooper beer retailer at 35 washington st it says ..here is commercial st so we really need a map off mike if poss just to confirm that the st to the left of the pub was indeed commercial st..then at least we will know if the location is correct...also need to research to find out if there were any moulding works in that area...could confirm if the pub was called the moulders arms as pubs were very often named after nearby industries..just had a look in the trade directories and there was a ROGERS WILSON AND CO MOULD MAKERS (RUBBER) in holloway head which is what washington st comes under


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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#237 by mikejee , Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:58 am

Have gone back to the problem of the Moulders arms. Have found an advert in the 1st February 1869 edition of Birm Daily Post saying the Moulders Arms is on the corner of the Washington & Commercial streets. From the directories no 35 is on the corner shown in red, though on the picture of the pub the pub seems shorter on the Commercial st side than on the map, but this may be an illusion


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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#238 by astoness , Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:18 pm

Excellent Mike, many thanks for the snippet and map...this now cofirms that the photo is of the Moulders Arms pub, Washington Street and is as I suspected most likely named after the nearby Rogers Wilson and Co. mould makers…that's that sorted then


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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#239 by Voltman , Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:31 pm

Well done Mike.

Another Holders pub name for Stirling Singles list, although one has to be deleted as there appears not to have been a Holders Arms after all.
I think the Commercial Street side is part building and part back yard, giving the camera the impression that the property is shorter than it really is.

We know from your previous investigations that the pub photo was taken in the period 1912 to 1927 as W.C Cooper is landlord.
Now, if you would be so kind as to name all the people in the photograph, ondmangonewest might learn if his great grandmother really is on the doorstep at the pub.


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RE: Holders Pubs in Birmingham,

#240 by mikejee , Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:03 pm

Volty
Regrettably I fear that the likelihood of being able to do that is less than that of seeing George Osborne giving £5 to a beggar

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