Mainly For Brummies But All Are Welcome To Join In The Birmingham Fun & Chat


Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#1 by Stirling Single , Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:48 am

Any one have any more information about this pub or any photographs. Thanks if you have.

Lynn.

Stirling Single  
Stirling Single
Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#2 by mikejee , Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:36 pm

The pub, a beerhouse, opened in 1839. Samuel Chatwin was the first landlord, and it was closed in 1912 by the justices . Landlords listedin the directories i have are:
1839-41 Samuel Chatwin
1845-58 John Harfield
1862-68 Wallis Mason
1872-73 Frederick Luckett
1876-92 Edwin Grocutt
1895-99 Daniel Parkes
1900 Henry Morris
1903 William Wright
1904 Herbert H.Cooper
1905 William Henry Welsh
1908 Mrs Florence Leah Rogers
1910-12 John Holmes


mikejee  
mikejee

Founder Member
Posts: 3.264
Date registered 12.26.2009


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#3 by Stirling Single , Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:17 pm

Mike,
Thanks for that. What was closed by the justies mean. I have a lot to learn.
Lynn.

Stirling Single  
Stirling Single
Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#4 by mikejee , Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:28 pm

Lynn
The justices are the people who award and renew the licence for the pub. They could refuse to renew because of the character of the licensee, or trouble at the pub. In this case, because a nearby pub was also closed at the same time and awarded compensation, I think it was part of a general policy to reduce the number of pubs in the inner city, and thus reduce drunkenness. It was usually the smallest pubs with the worst facilities that were removed. There was a scheme to partially recompense the owners by a levy on other houses. this presumably was where the money compensation mentioned above for a nearby pub came from. I do not know whether this pub recieved any compensation ,as McKenna does not say.
Mike


mikejee  
mikejee

Founder Member
Posts: 3.264
Date registered 12.26.2009


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#5 by Stirling Single , Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:34 pm

Mike,
What I have is a solicitor's letter - Archibald S. Bennett, the Solicitor
It says :-

Messrs. Holder's Brewery Limited
To
The Birmingham Property Company Limited
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1912.
Apl.5 To Appreciation, Craven Arms, Gough Street, on closing Dog & Partridge, Ellis Street - #£162.10.0

Led.Fo.87.
---------------
#Payable on date of closing, which will be advised you in due course

so, as you say it was being closed but Mike, do you understand the wording to do with The Craven Arms - The Craven Arms being a Holder Pub.

Lynn.

Stirling Single  
Stirling Single
Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#6 by mikejee , Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:50 pm

Lynn
The answer is I don’t know for sure. However it undoubtably refers to the closure of the Dog & Partridge.. You say the Craven Arms was a Holders Pub. That was originally true , but , according to McKenna, it was taken over by M & B in 1896, and so in 1912 would have been owned by M & B. Therefore I would surmise that the letter from Holders is an application to The Birmingham Property Co (perhaps a subsidiary of M & B , or otherwise, if it is leasehold, the owners of the building from which M & B hold the lease) for money “in appreciation “ of giving up the licence,, and thus probably increasing trade to the Craven Arms, which is only just round the corner.
Mike


mikejee  
mikejee

Founder Member
Posts: 3.264
Date registered 12.26.2009


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#7 by phil ( deleted ) , Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:54 am

Mike,

I thought that M & B didn't buy Holders out until 1919?

Phil


Make Love, Not War

phil

RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#8 by Stirling Single , Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:58 am

Mike and Phil,

Mike, I shall try and find out when M & B took over but with the ammount that Mckenna has written - interesting.
I admit that the dates that I have noted would agree with Phil.
What I have is Holders Midland Brewery 1872 - 1919
Then M & B to 1923 when it was closed down - If I am correct!

Any photographs Phil, although if you have I'm sure you would have put them on.

Basically, what I need to do now is get a lot of my dates SORTED.

Thanks all again.

Lynn.

Stirling Single  
Stirling Single
Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#9 by mikejee , Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:37 pm

I am only going from McKenna, and don’t have any other source for the information. On one occasion previously I did find his date for the closure of a pub out by a few years (unless Kellys did not update properly , which is possible), so he could be wrong. Pubs did sell between breweries, though the Craven Arms was quite a big pub, so it is surprising if they did sell in 1896
Mike


mikejee  
mikejee

Founder Member
Posts: 3.264
Date registered 12.26.2009


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#10 by phil ( deleted ) , Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:25 pm

Mike

I don't disagree with you as he says the same thing in Central Birmingham Pubs volume 2. Its only that I find it odd that Holders would sell such a good pub some years before they sold out, as it was obviously one they had built from scratch.

Lynn,

I hope you can read this which I have scanned from three different pages of the book.

Phil


Make Love, Not War

Attached pictures:
You do not have the necessary rights to view attached pictures
phil
Last edited Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:20 pm | Top

RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#11 by Stirling Single , Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:29 pm

Phil,
Yes, I can read it. Please can you tell me what book and page number you are in for this.
Lynn.

Stirling Single  
Stirling Single
Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#12 by phil ( deleted ) , Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:28 pm

Lynn

Sorry for calling you Anne, I've put it right now.

The book is published by Tempus Publishing Ltd ISBN No 0752441442 in 2006, in the Images of England Series and it's title is Birmingham Central Pubs Volume 2 by Joseph McKenna. It was priced at £12.99 then but I'm sure you can pick a copy up from Ebay or Amazon cheaper than that. Oh yes it was spread out over pages 105, 106 & 107.

Phil


Make Love, Not War

phil
Last edited Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:30 pm | Top

RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#13 by Stirling Single , Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:02 pm

Thanks Phil, No worries.

Mike, when you mentioned McKenna, was that the same book that Phil has given me the name of and thanks for all the information that you have given me. When you tell me bits and pieces that leads me to thinking!! and looking up other bits and pieces. Lynn.

Stirling Single  
Stirling Single
Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#14 by mikejee , Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:18 pm

Yes , i was referring to the same book as Phil
Mike


mikejee  
mikejee

Founder Member
Posts: 3.264
Date registered 12.26.2009


RE: Dog and Partridge - 47, Ellis Street - Closed April 1912

#15 by Stirling Single , Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:30 pm

Thanks Mike,
I'll look it up on ?eBay and see if I can get a good price. Lynn.

Stirling Single  
Stirling Single
Posts: 347
Date registered 03.12.2011


   

One of the Two that just say Birmingham Pub Postcard
Our Local & It's Characters

Thank you for visiting our humble forum, make this your forum by joining us and posting your own thoughts and questions.
Xobor Create your own Forum with Xobor